January Version Update Schedule Revealed! (12/15/2014)

[fantasticdan]

Pro V and Shell V are very potent buffs, even for pets. You can see on players a significant difference in damage taken with and without them.

If you could actually put pro/shell on the puppets you'd want DT on, it would be a nice buff.

I'd just look at it as QoL. Less time/MP for the puppet buffing. The end.

If you're solo (when else would you be using the whm auto?), it's the same mp cost, and increased casting time compared to before. Plus, it says the protectra/shellra REPLACE regular prot/shell, so the auto can no longer recast them from range when they get dispelled. That means you need to waste time/JA delay having it waddle into melee range (and than reposition yourself + the monster every time) if you want to rebuff, and risk having it get by AoEs/status effects.

[dasva]

Duh, of course they're powerful Damane, that's not the point.
The point is: what is the role SE is thinking for this new addition?

1) A nice bonus for some pets
2) The answer to all "pet survivability" woes


Those are the two possible scenarios I see. If it's 1) it's all good, it will be just icing on the cake.
If it's 2) then it's quite trobulesome because you can't realistically rely on that to "balance" pet survivability because a) only 2 automatons out of 6 can use it, b) it has to be cast before it can take effect, and that might not always be possible, c) it can be dispelled.

I seriously hope it's not 2), because that's not what people have been asking for so far, and it's not the right answer to the pet survivability issues.

Have you tried stacking defensive stats for pets on pup... autos can get insane amounts of pdt and mdb and reasonable amounts of mdt. If anything I think this is more to deal with the slightly lower survivability of those 2 autos compared to valoredge and I'm just guessing they kinda assume screw the blm and rng models they shouldn't be taking dmg anyways lol

[Sechs]

There are still limits given by the elemental capacity of each combination of head/frames (they mentioned raising them some time ago, but nothing yet).
Even with a fully defensive-packed Automaton you'd have a hard time making it survive on VD battles, to make a simple example. Probably even on easier content than that.
And let's not forget going that defensive comes at a cost of everything else (almost...) at which point when your automaton can't do anything you might wonder why even keep it out at all if it can't do anything useful.

In this scenario Protectra and Shellra are very welcome boons, if all they're meant to be is just "additional boons" (minus the things fantasticdan just named, some valid concern there).
But if they meant this to be the "solution" to the "pet survivability issue" then it won't solve anything at all because:

1) Only 2 automatons out of 6 can use them
2) Other pets (other jobs) won't benefit from that and they still have the same survivability issues (to a different degree, of course)
3) It's still something that has to be cast and that, as such, needs your automaton to engage and able to cast spells (and can be dispelled)

This is why I'm hoping for it to be just an additional boon, and not their "solution" for the pet survivability issue in tough battles (for which the only possible solution I can see, imho, is to use the same approach that's been used in a plethora of other MMOs, that's GREATLY reducing AoE damage on pets, as long as such aoe damage isn't directly targeted on the pets themselves)

[dasva]

Making them tank on VD battles sure having them survive just fighting naw man even without defensive setups they survive just fine on D. Well at least valoredge does. I'll have to pull up the setups I made for it but I was giving them comparable magic and physically dmg reductions to that of a pld. Of course there is the loss of dps and ability to heal to take care of which forces you to go the route of CB spamming which forces you to use a less optimal maneuver until they let us set it like they said.

Think this might be just trying to get those 2 to have survivability closer to valoredges

[Ophannus]

The whole point of valoredge was to be a tank yet under no circumstance does it ever even come close to being able to hold hate or mitigate enough damage. It would have been cool to have it be a workable pet tank class if geared properly but it never came fo fruition for some reason. Not sure why, it would have been unique and could have been another class to look for incase no plds available for a battlefield fight.

[arus2001]

Think that risks stepping into the quagmire of some pet class enthusiasts not being happy until they're as effective as 2 flesh and blood players. So, if the automaton were to wind up a PLD-tier tank, some major gimping of the PUP would need to occur while using Valoredge and associated tanky parts.

[dasva]

Think that risks stepping into the quagmire of some pet class enthusiasts not being happy until they're as effective as 2 flesh and blood players. So, if the automaton were to wind up a PLD-tier tank, some major gimping of the PUP would need to occur while using Valoredge and associated tanky parts.

Idk I think the idea is to be able to chose. Either a decent player dd with some mediocre backup from the auto, some okish pc and auto, or all out on auto with the player pretty much just standing back and gear/maneuver for the auto. Honestly i think that was part of the reasoning behind the frequent player ja time loss of maneuvers.

Part of the problem came from generally even if you went all out for pet or master neither would really be top tier and there wasn't a good mix of gear to boost both decently and maneuvers were regulated to being required to make the auto good but a huge dps loss. Tweaking the numbers some could've made it a trade off choice without gimping either but I think they were afraid of giving us 2 good dds. Completely forgetting the fact that we still can't buff/cure pets. Really just allow party only single target and AoE spells/abilities would do a lot though you'd have tweak things to not overpower pets in some regards

[Capuchin]

Think this might be just trying to get those 2 to have survivability closer to valoredges

This kind of misses the point that it's not very relevant that the mage frames have survivability anyway. They're disposable: most PUPs will be deactivate/reactivating them intentionally to refill MP. Even if you do manage to lose a puppet with Activate timer down, it's easy to reset with DEA (weakened puppet), heal to full with Repair or a single cure spell, then Deactivate-Activate for full strength puppet.

And frankly, Protect or not, if your mage puppet is taking hits it's gonna die in short order anyway. Maybe Protect gives them an extra hit. Protect would actually be relevant on Sharpshot or Valoredge... which don't get it.

S-E's "answer" to lack of pro/shell on pets was Stout Servant trait. Which doesn't really cut it. But maybe they'll enhance that trait further, allow for player cast Pro/Shell to affect pets (I don't think this is particularly likely, but possible), do something via attachments, etc.

New attachments that they've been hinting at could have some potential, and I'm hoping those make it into the January update. Looking at recent BLU spell additions, for instance, they gave some pretty powerful traits. Maybe PUP could get similarly strong automaton traits from some new attachments...

[Sechs]

I agree with what you said, it's what I meant with the only 2 automatons out of 6 being able to benefit from Prot/Shell.
Plus we have the -ra only concerns Fantasticdan posted.

They're disposable: most PUPs will be deactivate/reactivating them intentionally to refill MP. Even if you do manage to lose a puppet with Activate timer down, it's easy to reset with DEA (weakened puppet), heal to full with Repair or a single cure spell, then Deactivate-Activate for full strength puppet.

That's the trick all of us have been using since day 1 even after they nerfed it.
I wonder how do other PUPs feel about it though? Despite of course making wide use of it myself, I kinda always hated it.
It doesn't feel like something that was meant to work that way, but more like an exploit used by players that they never bothered to address...

So many things they could work on for PUPs. Allowing an option to keep automatons at max range, actually increasing that range to 16 or 17 yalms, and so on, stuff like this.

[Capuchin]

I've also always kinda felt the Deactivate trick was sort of a wonky unintended thing, but since it's been here for most of a decade, I just accept it now. It really, really does make an automaton very disposable though, especially the mage frames. So it's understandable that WHM RDM heads getting pro/shell is met with a collective shrug.

So many things they could work on for PUPs. Allowing an option to keep automatons at max range, actually increasing that range to 16 or 17 yalms, and so on, stuff like this.

I'm sorta hopeful for the new attachments. As it is now, puppets are damn near useless on anything that matters.

Stormwaker: Has its niche for Haste II in solo non-trust zones (Salvage, Dyna), OK.

Soulsoother: It's fine I guess, reasonably good for solo in areas where you can't call trusts at least. I've used it on party content just to help toss -na and stuff to help mages, and as an empty can to dump my hate into with Ventriloquy.

Spiritreaver: Utterly useless in today's FFXI. I honestly don't know how they could hope to fix it now. Even BLM main are only useful to the extent they can spam low tier spells with Magic DMG+, so the puppet focused on slow high tier nukes (which get resisted heavily) is in a really bad spot.

Sharpshot: Really could give PUP a strong position in the DD hierarchy with changes to hit rate (i.e. fixing level correction nonsense so it can hit like it should be able to with a Divinator) and some ability to mitigate AoEs. That would include just making the damn thing stay at range, perhaps by an AI-modifying attachment.

Valoredge: I'd prefer it to just be a melee DD as opposed to SS's ranged DD (as was once the case), but looks like the ship has sailed on the (misguided?) idea of making it tank. /sigh. If they're gonna do that, buff Stout Servant, give it some strong enmity generation (or lower enmity decay) tools, maybe make it the only automaton able to able to be affected by "defensive" player spells (i.e. Pro/Shell, maybe cures and -nas). Can't realistically let puppets get stuff like BRD COR buffs since PUP would probably become too strong that way while paired with an A+ H2H master... unless they want PUP to just be the next broken tier DD. Which I guess isn't an impossible prospect considering Rudra's mania and the previous SAM/WS buffs, but I don't really find it particularly reasonable lol.

[Malithar]

Dunno how many people saw this as it appears to of been taken down from the main page. Quoting from Alla: was posted a month before the update was due to hit. Derp.

The next version update is scheduled for Thursday, January 15, 2015.

Sink your teeth into the lore of Adoulin with quests featuring unexplored aspects of the main scenario, the addition of more Unity Wanted battles, and puppetmaster adjustments.

Also scheduled is the long-awaited ability to equip two linkpearls at once, along with other content that had been pushed back from December.

Steel yourself for an action-packed January!

Bold my emphasis. What more from December have we not gotten? The only thing that comes to mind was the whole "content featuring the Xol Triumviate" which they never went into detail at all about.

[Sechs]

@Malithar
I wouldn't hold my breath for january patch content if I were you =/


@Capuchin
Agree so much with that.
You forgot Harlequin but I guess nobody cares for that.
Spiritreaver sucking is kinda a byproduct of magic being in that odd spot it is today compared to physical DD (and skillchain damage lol)
And I absolutely agree on VE. The tank thing will never realistically work in a game like FFXI is today, this isn't WoW (Warlock and Hunter) or FFXIV (Summoner with Topaz Carbuncle or Titan), pet tanking while the master bangs it won't work with FFXI's mechanics, might as well give up the idea and focus on DD capabilities.
After they fixed the WS damage some time ago Valoredge is quite decent with damage I thought, especially for lucky KKK owners who can fully exploit the AM3?
On hybrid builds with capped gear haste and turbochargerI+II I've seen quite some decent damage.
Of course it's a different story if you start talking about VD content and very high level stuff, but up to D fights and around that it should work pretty decently as long as you can keep it alive.

[dasva]

Well really in a lot of ways it's not completely a problem with pets being able to tank as anyone being able to keep hate over non decoy shotting DDs lol. Honestly almost think they should just give up the idea of tanking and with it making mobs that deal tons of dmg to non tanks because they clearly don't want to fix enmity and until they do the answer to huge dmgs will be decoying pld/runs, stunlocking or EA/Scherzo

[Sechs]

That's a fair point. The issue is in general with tanking just like you said, not much with pets tanking (they have other additional issues too of course)

[Draylo]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...724#post537724